![]() I have seen your savegames, and it looks like a small empire (under 20 cities) in an average size map (124圆2), that uses to be a good scenario for Democracy. In theory, with Federation it should be easier to celebrate due to the luxury bonuses (+2 per city) and lower corruption, but Democracy should allow to generate more science due to the extra trade per tile (in non oceanic tiles) and the increased max tax rate (90%). When I said to take into account celebration bonuses of Democracy, I meant it in order to compare it to govs that can't celebrate like Communism or Fundamentalism.įederation and Democracy can be compared without the need to celebrate. I used to do similar comparisons in my games, but it is useful to see them coming from other players/games. If anyone wants to check my stats, I'll attach a savegame. I'm still experimenting with where to put it for maximum effect. This is still without an Ecclesiastical Palace. We can also see that at all stages of the game, Federation is on par with Democracy or better, for science. It won't get better than this for science (without sacrificing production, for scientists) - I'll lose gold as my cities build their remaining defenses.Īt this stage of the game, celebration is better for science for all governments except Despotism and Tribalism. All cities have all gold-producing tiles worked (including all water). I'll attach the game if you doubt these stats.Īnother 30 turns on and all 17 cities have made all improvements to do with science, happiness and gold (Super Highways was the last). There are still some Wonders/Improvements that would increase luxury and the Ecclesiastical Palace hasn't been built yet, so I expect this arrangement to shift a bit, later on. OK, this is while cities are still quite small, the economy is still production centric and offshore-platforms haven't been researched yet (not so many people on the water). But Federation beats Democracy hands down. In this table, first number is bulbs and the second is gold.ĭemocracy and Celebration does worst of all. Gold was turned down so that income was still positive. I turned the luxury up, got the cities to celebrate, and then turned it down as much as possible so that still more than half the cities were celebrating. For this current game, I tested dem and fed, celebrating and not. In civ2civ3, for much of the game, Federation gives you more science than Democracy. I love democracy, and easily beat AI when i can reach this government and start to be leader in technologyĪre you talking about the civ2civ3 ruleset? In classic ruleset I would agree with you. If you already took into account what I said, and you still find Democracy underpowered, please let me know, and tell me the number of cities (or average distance to capital) of your nation when Democracy is no longer useful. Of course, it is suppose to be hard to achieve while you are attacking other nations. It requires to increase a lot the luxury rates to force cities to start celebrating, but the extra trade generated once they are celebrating allows to reduce again the luxury rates, and the resultant output use to be better than any other government. If you don't find use for Republic and Democracy, maybe you are not taking full advantage of Celebration. If you find Federation better even in the case of small nations (I'm talking about 30 cities or so), then it would require some rebalance, but it is not true in my tests.Īctually, I think that Democracy might be a bit overpowered in civ2civ3, and I planned to reduce its empire size in my "earth" version of the ruleset. Specially If you build the ecclesiastical palace, and courthouses in your cities (that halves corruption/waste). The extra trade per tile of Democracy and Republic use to be better than the reduced corruption/waste of Federation. I think it is always the government that allows the highest production of science (to maximize bulbs), except for big empires in large maps, where Federation could end being better, but Democracy would remain better for smaller nations. I don't think Democracy gets obsolete in civ2civ3. ![]() Imho, AI is not a good reference to compare the power of governments. It would be great if this change increases the chances of AIs using Democracy, but in my tests, the governments chosen by the AI change a lot from one version of Freeciv to another. And I agree the ruleset should try to adapt to AI weaknesses. ![]() ![]() I agree that AIs hardly use it because they are always at war, with many units outside their national borders. I like your suggestion to remove the military unhappiness caused by ships with 0 attack.
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